Octuplets

[GillyF]

For anybody who has had a multiple pregnancy the story this week of the birth in the US of octuplets is one it is hard to ignore, and I've found the story in my paper today very hard to stomach.

It would seem that it happened because perhaps as many as 8 embryos were put back after IVF - something that couldn't happen here, and even though there is far less control over fertility treatment in the US a fertility doctor did something highly unethical. If reports are correct and the mother is a) fairly young and b) already has 6 children, she doesn't have problems conceiving or carrying babies so the probability that multiple embryos would implant was far higher than for most women undergoing IVF, with all the attendant risks of a multiple pregnancy.

It has just stirred up pain and anger for me that I really don't need as I approach the anniversary of the birth of my boys. I ask myself how can it be that I couldn't carry 2 babies for as long as she carried 8, and it only adds to the anger I feel over my recent failure to conceive after IVF. With embryos left over after my first (unsuccessful) cycle of IVF, I felt compelled to at least try and give them the chance of life, and had only 1 embryo put back. To have risked a twin pregnancy  after losing my son was, to me, unethical. It failed, and I now have to accept that I am blessed to have one child and very unlikely to have any more. Yet this woman already had lots of children and 8 more are now in intensive and high dependency care. I pray to God they are all fine, but the risk that they will contract infections or be diagnosed with cerebral palsy is still high.

I think the doctor should be identified and struck off because, like all these stories of US celebs having twins after IVF, it just makes it seem that, with neonatal care these days babies born after a multiple birth will be ok in the end. And it makes me feel even guiltier about the death and suffering of my son.

Gilly 

[mel - jakesangelmummy]

 

I dont have any experience of IVF or multiple births but I can certainly understand why you would find this story so upsetting.

I too was a little annoyed at myself that this woman carried 8  babies 'safely' (Im aware of the dangers they face now) when one little boy was too much for my body to deal with 

I didnt know she already has 6 kids. I cant believe that someone with 6 kids would even consider IVF 

Seems unfair that she should have 14 children when so many people struggle just to bring one healthy baby home with them

Im sorry this story has hit you so hard at an already difficult time. I will be thinking of you on the run up to Guys Birthday and Anniversary

 

[Bretts mummy Emma]

Awwwww hunni I can't begin to imagine just how difficult it is for you as I haven't experienced mutliple births or IVF. I also have not lost my angel during pregnancy either but you are in my thoughts hun. 

[***clairelouise-finlays mummy ***]

  big hugs babe xxxxxx

[GillyF]

Thanks, ladies.

The story is even bigger now because it seems the mother has let it be known that she wants to appear on Oprah and be paid millions for letting the rest of the world in on the story. She's treating her family like a freak show.

Clearly, it's causing uproar in America and quite apart from the people who are appalled on moral grounds, there will be lots of people who've lost babies, lots of people who've lost multiples, lots of people who can't have babies who are deeply upset by it. And what gets me too are the people who post on the web saying why do people choose to get upset by this story? why don't they worry about people in Gaza or Sri Lanka instead?

Well, lots of us haven't chosen to be upset and it intrudes on our grief.

It's a mad, unfair, cruel world.

[Blakes Mummy]

I have read today that she is unmarried and all babies belong to the same sperm donor  thats come from her own mother who asked her to leave the perantal home as a teenager as it was causing the mother grief. also the other 6 range from a 2 yr old to a 7 yr old.  she is a very selfish person.

[Jen]

Hi J

I haven???t replied to this thread before now because I have found this story so hard to take in. When it was posted on the community board last week all I could ask was ??is it as a result of fertility treatment???.

I???ve read the stories in the press with growing rage. How can someone who knows that she can conceive easily with IVF want so many embryos implanted in one attempt? She does not have fertility issues and uses IVF as a life style choice. She has had a successful pregnancy on each attempt and on one occasion had twins.

With that knowledge, to transfer so many embryos was nothing short of reckless. She will have known that it was impossible to have carried her babies to a ??safe??? gestation and she willingly subjected her babies to a life with many possible medical problems because of her desire to have a freak show instead of a baby. From what I understand her babies are all non identical which means she ran the risk of having more than eight babies as each embryo could have divided in to at least two which is not uncommon in IVF ??? and that is assuming that she ??only??? had eight transferred and it was not a greater number of embryos and some did not implant.

We made the decision to stop fertility treatment as we knew it was most improbable that I could carry a baby to a safe gestation. Much as I would have loved and adored any of my babies, regardless of any problems they may have had, it was not my place to subject another human being to a life of hardship as a result of my longing to be a mummy to a baby that left hospital by the front door in a car seat and not by the back in a coffin.

That was the most heartbreaking decision I have ever reached but I knew it was wrong of me to bring a child in to this world knowing he or she would be unlikely to have a normal childhood and grow in to an independent adult.

How can this ??mother???, with six healthy children at home do something (transfer of multiple embryos), that she knew was not in the best interests of those babies and something that she knew might lead to the death of some or all of them and if they survived, do something that would cause them to be born very prematurely?

That is not the actions of a mother.

I hope I have not upset anyone by my views on this but I feel so strongly based on personal experience.

Jen

[kimbobt84-BensMummy]

 jen i think you speak for alot of people with your views and feelings. It upset me on two fronts, for the woman who can't even have one and selfishly for myself who could only have 3 not 4. Why was this allowed!! I hear stories of waiting lists and strict things that must be met by couples etc yet a woman can go do something so careless, so selfish! The doctor involved in this was wrong to do this too, how can he practise with a blatent disregard to the health of the babies concieved. I just have no words for the woman, the doctors, this world. I just hope the babies somehow grow up happy and healthy x 

[GillyF]

Hi Jen,

I confess I hadn't looked at the community board - with this board bookmarked, I tend to be a bit tunnel visioned.

But I too wondered early on just how miraculous it really was, and am so relieved that our big "weather event" has pushed the story away here. Yesterday, I switched off the radio when Jeremy Vine's talk show came on because I knew the anti-IVF brigade would be phoning in, and not only am I always staggered by the ignorance of Joe Public, the lack of compassion for other people really makes me want to emigrate.

I have absolutely no doubt that there are people who are impatient and go through IVF because they have the funds and can't be persuaded to wait, but they must surely be a very small proportion. Most of the people who go through it do so because they are desperate, because they have had losses and time is not on their side, and you have to have been through it to appreciate how tough it is mentally, especially when it fails. But it is also a big deal medically, and after reading about this woman it's the doctor who treated her that I think needs shooting. Clearly, she is not a mature woman, and she has been aided and abetted by people who are medically trained yet grossly irresponsible. (Quite apart from the question of how it has all been financed.)

That doctor knew there was an enormous risk of a high multiples birth, so how can s/he have been faithful to their oath to 'do no harm'? They have helped bring into the world babies who could easily be severely handicapped, who could so very easily have died before or early after birth. That anybody is practising medicine who was prepared to risk that just beggars belief, and I think they should be named, shamed and struck off.

But hopefully something good will come of this. It has caused such outrage in the US that I think it likely that they will be forced to tighten up their industry. One of the reason why most of the multiples sites on the web are from the US is because twins and triplets are so much more common there as a result of their laissez faire attitude to embryo numbers after IVF. For the sake of the babies, they need to be much more responsible.

And that's the problem, Jen. We're responsible people, we're able to see that it's not what we want that matters. It's the prognosis for the children we might have that is the overriding consideration. And it's so much harder for us to contain the sadness and anger we feel when stories like this are so hard to ignore. We can't help getting worked up about them because they touch some very raw nerves.

Pity those poor babies.

Best wishes,

J



   

[babybiggles]

I agree with you all, this story is so hard to listen to and read, as a person who was on the brink of ivf and had 4 years of fertility issues the fact that this women allowed 8 embreyos to be put back in wen there are women out there who cant even have one is very hard to be sympathetic to. the fact she wants to go on oprah and make money is so so disgusting that words dont even  cut it. to all poor people out there who are effected by this story its hard to hear this soort of news. i pray all the babies are ok but this women is very very selfish and doesnt deserve such a blessing are 6 children not enough for her she needs to risk these litttle lives for her own selfishness



sorry if i have said something to upset anyone in this


love lisa xx

[Laura~Tyler&Taylor'sMommy]

I've just seen the woman's 1st interview on the TV. She claimed that from an early age that she always wanted children.

So did I, but if I was blessed with 6 healthy children I wouldn't have been so selfish by wanting more when there are people out there desperate to conceive or unable to.

And as for her thinking the whole situations convenient as she can make 'mega bucks' by selling photographs and doing magazine deals 

[mom_of_6]

I am from the US an the news here states that every pregnancy she had was threw IVF an that this last time she only had 6 embryos put in which 2 spilt in half makeing 8 babies...I don't agree with what she did after having 6 kids at home but each to their own i guess...i understand why you all are upset ...but i also think media sometimes makes to much of things also.I'm not sure if shes doing it for money or not...but i think she is being a little selfish as you all have said....i don't mean to hurt anyone or upset anyone...just wanted you to know what i had heard here in the US..


Angela

[Jen]

Angela, thanks for the input from that side of the pond.

I've had this playing on my mind so much recently and concluded that the person I feel is most responsible is the doctor who transferred the embryos to her. His actions were wreckless, neglect really.

I saw the woman (I can't use the term mother for her as her actions are not that of a mother) on the television yesterday and I am back to feeling pretty disgusted at her. She has 8 babies in intensive care in LA and 6 other children being looked after by her parents and there she was telling her story to the media in New York - about 3000 miles away!!!!!

She is using her babies as a commodity to make money!

Jen

[mom_of_6]

I agree with you Jen..it is awful what some people do...I myself have had 2 babies in the NICU an between running to hospital an back home to see my other kids...i couldn't dream of taking the time to go do interveiws 3000 miles away...that sure does look money hungery to me...i can understand the WANT to have children....but there is such a thing as going TO FAR...as she has done...you're suppose to have kids to love an cherish an take care of ...NOT for a profit!!

Angela

[Blakes Mummy]

Anglea your a 'normal' mother of nicu babies dividing your time. that other woman is just using her babies as money makers she needs to wake up to herself.

  for your babies hope they are doing well hun.